Zappa in New York

  The different versions 
of "Titties & Beer" in 

What to Get: All CD versions are the same, and opinions are mixed; the LP is generally considered to sound better, but is shorter. Keep in mind that much, but not all, of the original LP can be found on Läther.

Summary: The CD is much longer than the LP, with bonus tracks and differences galore. It is also remixed, and has new guitar overdubs on "Punky's Whips." All CDs contain the same audio.

ESSENTIAL VERSIONS FOR COMPLETISTS: Any CD and a vinyl. Plus an uncensored vinyl, if you're a loon. [completist's guide]


  • Original vinyl (DiscReet 2D 2290 in the US, March 3 1978; K 69204 in the UK, April 1978 - test pressings (uncensored) are also in circulation, as are gold-stamped promos)
  • German vinyl (WEA DiscReet 69204 - copy reported with "Punky's Whips" listed on cover but not on label)
  • Dutch vinyl (DiscReet 69204-A)
  • French vinyl (DiscReet 69204, picture sleeve)
  • Greek vinyl
  • Yugoslavian vinyl (SUZY Records 69204, 1977)
  • Japanese vinyl (DiscReet P-6339-40W, white-label promo also reported)
  • Brazilian vinyl
  • Norwegian vinyl (WEA DiscReet 2D2290)
  • Korean vinyl (T 257 - "ZAPP IN NEW YORK" on label)
  • "Facsimile bootleg" vinyl
  • Cassette (Warner/DiscReet J5A 2290)
  • 8-track
  • Zappa Records Vinyl (Zappa Records 37)
  • Original CD (Barking Pumpkin D2 74240, Zappa Records CDDZAP37 in the UK, October 1991; VACK 5083/4 in Japan)
  • Zappa Records cassette (TZAPPA37)
  • 1991 cassette (Barking Pumpkin, September or October 1991)
  • 1995 CD (Ryko RCD 10524/25, May 2 1995; VACK 5083/4 in Japan, renumbered 5218/19 in 1998)
  • Japanese paper-sleeve CD (Ryko/VACK 1223, October 24 2001)
  • 2012 UMe CD (Zappa Records ZR 3856 August 28, 2012)
  • CD counterfeit
  • "Just Another Live Album" bootleg CD

Current Version Track-listing (links to Román's stupendous lyrics rundown)

 CD 1:

  1. Titties & Beer 7:36
  2. Cruisin' For Burgers 9:12 (CD Bonus Track)
  3. I Promise Not To Come In Your Mouth 3:31
  4. Punky's Whips 10:50 (CD Semi-Bonus Track)
  5. Honey, Don't You Want A Man Like Me? 4:11
  6. The Illinois Enema Bandit 12:41

 CD 2:

  1. I'm The Slime 4:24 (CD Bonus Track)
  2. Pound For A Brown 3:41 (CD Bonus Track)
  3. Manx Needs Women 1:50
  4. The Black Page Drum Solo/Black Page #1 3:50
  5. Big Leg Emma 2:17
  6. Sofa 2:56
  7. Black Page #2 5:36
  8. The Torture Never Stops 12:34 (CD Bonus Track)
  9. The Purple Lagoon/Approximate 16:40

Relation to LÄTHER

From JWB:

Seven songs on the UNCENSORED VINYL version of Zappa in New York also appear on the Läther album in exactly the same way:

  • "Titties & Beer"
  • "I Promise Not to Come in Your Mouth" (called "Läther" on Läther)
  • "Punky's Whips"
  • "The Illinois Enema Bandit" (called "The Legend of the Illinois Enema Bandit" on Läther)
  • "The Black Page #1"
  • "Big Leg Emma"
  • "The Purple Lagoon/Approximate"

Only one New York track is exclusive to Läther:

  • "Honey, Don't You Want a Man Like Me?": alternate version

The CD version of Zappa In New York is completely re-assembled and remixed, and bears no relation to Läther and the vinyl version of Zappa In New York other than the fact that it contains completely different mixes of some of the same performances.

From Román García Albertos:

I have heard the three supposedly different versions of "Honey, Don't You Want a Man Like Me?" (those of the Zappa in New York LP, Zappa in New York CD and Läther), and I can't find any difference between the LP and CD versions, only that stereo is reversed (well, maybe I got some connections wrong in my turntable) and that in the intro four measures are edited out from the CD version (and because of that the vibes entry is so abrupt when Zappa begins to sing). The curious thing is the Läther version. There are parts pretty much faster, but there are other parts that I think they are exactly the same as the Zappa in New York version, so it seems to be a mix of two versions. Just after "the band was tight" (that fast part is full of vibes!) I think it edits to the Zappa in New York version, and after "they discussed the weather" it returns to the other version. Then, after "hockey in the winter," the screams of Bozzio and the others are the same as Zappa in New York, and with "he was duly impressed" it returns to the previous version. Then after "But it made him angry!", once again the Bozzio and O'Hearn screams are taken from the Zappa in New York version and it goes with that version until "in a petulant frenzy!", when it switches to the fast version again until the end. So:

"Honey, Don't You Want A Man Like Me?" from Läther I think it goes like this:

00:07 not Zappa in New York
00:35 Zappa in New York
01:15 not Zappa in New York
01:43 Zappa in New York
01:48 not Zappa in New York
02:58 Zappa in New York
03:17 not Zappa in New York

Album & Track Titles

On the Zappa Records CD, "The Illinois Enema Bandit" is written "The Legend of the Illinois Enema Bandit" (The title used on Läther) in the booklet only - not on the disc or on the back cover. And, from Charles Ulrich:

The album is usually referred to as Zappa in New York. But the Barking Pumpkin CDs (the disks themselves, one printed pink on black and one black on pink) do indeed say Live In New York.

Michael Fell adds:

Also, I think the original DiscReet release has the "Live" reference.

Test Pressings

From Musichead 7:

Discreet Records 1977 ... original white jacket ... blank white labels on discs with no song titles ... comes with song timing/title sheets. This is the ultra-rare copy which contains the track "Punky's Whips"!

Original Vinyl

The original vinyl version was released by Warner Brothers, who did not have Punky Meadows's clearance to put out the gay track "Punky's Whips", which was cut out (they also censored the Punky Meadows bits of "Titties & Beer"). That's why the vinyl is so short. Of course, some vinyl copies appeared with "Punky's Whips" on them, and some appeared listing it but not including it, and these are now rare and collectible. For example, the UK version (DiscReet K 69204) is present in the following variations:

  • without "Punky's Whips", and not listing it either;
  • without "Punky's Whips", but listing it on the cover;
  • with "Punky's Whips", listing it on the cover but not on the label.
  • A fourth version has more recently been reported with "Punky's Whips", listing it on both cover and label.

The third and fourth of these also had the complete, gay and uncensored version of "Titties & Beer". On the CD versions, all the censored stuff have been restored, because Zappa had had Punky's permission to use it all along.

With "Punky's Whips", the track list was:

1. Titties & Beer
2. I Promise Not to Come in Your Mouth
3. Punky's Whips

4. Sofa
5. Manx Needs Women
6. The Black Page Drum Solo / Black page
7. Big Leg Emma
8. The Black Page #2

9. Honey, Don't You Want a Man Like Me?
10. The Illinois Enema Bandit

11. The Purple Lagoon

Without "Punky's Whips", the track list was:

1. Titties & Beer
2. I Promise Not to Come in Your Mouth
3. Big Leg Emma

4. Sofa
5. Manx Needs Women
6. The Black Page Drum Solo / Black page
7. The Black Page #2

8. Honey, Don't You Want a Man Like Me?
9. The Illinois Enema Bandit

10. The Purple Lagoon

The US version with "Punky's Whips" was worth hundreds of dollars in the late '90s. The version without "Punky's Whips" had a "RE-1" code etched into the matrix - remake one, or revision one (this applies to the original pressing only).

Yugoslavian Vinyl

From Christof Haßlinger:

The label says: "Made in Yugoslavia; SUZY RECORDS PRODUCTION". The back cover has a "SUZY" logo and some Yugoslavian print. The spine, which is white, has "SUZY", artist & title and "69204". But the really weird thing is the cover itself: At least the front cover is a copy or a photograph of a gold-stamped US promo, and when you open up the gatefold cover, the lyrics are on the left side and the photos on the right side. They must have been completely out of their minds during the manufacturing! No, there is no "Punky's Whips".

Norwegian Vinyl

From Bjørn-Emil Madsen:

I just discovered that on both the cover and on the labels of my vinyl version of Zappa in New York (bought in '78), it says "made in Norway" (of course "Punky's Whips" is missing, but I have a UK vinyl version with that track). It is a WEA DiscReet record, 2D2290. The upper-right corner of the front cover does not have a number, but this number is inside the cover, and on the labels (my English issue has K69204 (2D2290) on the front cover).

"Facsimile Bootleg" Vinyl

From Román García Albertos:

Well, I call 'em "facsimile bootlegs", because they reproduce the cover and the label and the vinyl of the original releases. But they aren't. They don't sound very good (well, they sound good, but they're at least second generation), and the covers seem to be xerocopies of the originals. When the original releases were impossible to find and the CD era hadn't come yet, I think this was the only way to hear the records.

From Kristian Kier:

The main differences between the counterfeit and the original are the covers and the matrix numbers. The covers show some damages which weren't caused by handling, they were copied (xeroxed might be the wrong term, since they seem to be printed professionally) due to photo transfer. Best examples: We're Only In It for the Money and Zappa in New York.

The matrix numbers on the counterfeits are all hand-written. Original records by Verve/Polydor don't have hand-written numbers! That's the easiest way to check wether it's a fake, or not! Another clue: Most of these counterfeits do not have track separation between the songs.

I do have the fakes of Freak Out!, Absolutely Free, We're Only In It for the Money, Cruising with Ruben & the Jets, Lumpy Gravy and Zappa in New York (with "Punky's Whips"), all coming from Italy. I remember having seen Roxy & Elsewhere, too.



I have some info on the DiscReet cassette (J5A 2290). First the basics: The tape's title is Frank Zappa/Zappa In New York. According to the tape, side one is 32:10 and side two is 27:00. side one contains the following info (written in small print:

DiscReet Records, Inc., 5831 Sunset Blvd., Los Angeles, Calif. 90028,
manufactured by Warner Bros. Records Inc. * Made in U. S. A.

but on side two is written:

(C) 1977 Warner Bros Records Inc (C) 1977 DiscReet Records, Inc
[The Warner logo is here] A Warner Communications Company.

Although this tape also censors "Punky's Whips" and the huge chunk of "Titties & Beer" dialogue, the track list is different than that of the vinyl:

1. Titties & Beer
2. I Promise Not to Come in Your Mouth
3. Big Leg Emma
4. Honey, Don't You Want a Man Like Me?
5. The Purple Lagoon

6. The Illinois Enema Bandit
7. Sofa
8. Manx Needs Women
9. The Black Page Drum Solo / Black Page #1
10. Black Page #2

The cassette is white.

Zappa Records Vinyl

From Harry de Swart:

Someone offered me a vinyl version of ZINY Zappa Records 37 and it has "Punky's Whips". But it's only on the label and on the record, not mentioned on the sleeve. It was issued around 1991 and it is French.

Sleeve side 1:

  • Titties & Beer
  • I Promise Not to Come in Your Mouth
  • Big Leg Emma

Label side A:

  • Titties & Beer 6'28
  • I Promise Not to Come in Your Mouth 3'33
  • Punky's Whips 10'59 ["Big Leg Emma" is moved to side B]

On the back of the sleeve is the Barkin Pumpkin label. Is it like the 1991 CD or is it like the 1977 censored version? And why is "Punky's Whips" not mentioned on the sleeve? I know it is mentioned in a 1994 Zappa Collection folder as a 2LP.

Original CD

Remixed. Five bonus tracks: "Cruisin' for burgers", "Punky's Whips", "I'm the Slime", "A Pound for a Brown (on the Bus)", and "The Torture Never Stops". "Punky's Whips" is a different recording from the LP version. From Milhouse Guidry:

"Punky's Whips" is a different performance (than the one on Läther, which was on the original uncensored Zappa in New York 2-LP) and has the guitar overdubs. As far as I know, all the other tracks the CD and LP versions of Zappa in New York have in common were remixed, but are the same performance.

From Ulf Sundin:

The CD version contains about 45 minutes more music, distributed over five new songs and one extended version. The new songs are

  • "Cruisin' for burgers",
  • "Punky's Whips",
  • "I'm the Slime",
  • "A Pound for a Brown (on the Bus)", and
  • "The Torture Never Stops".

(That "extended version" would have to be "Titties & Beer".)

From Juha Sarkkinen:

The '91 version back cover reads "contains 4 new titles not on the original album". The '95 version "contains 5 new titles ..."

There is no new bonus track on the 1995 CD; the difference is whether or not you count "Punky's Whips" which was supposed to be on the original vinyl, but more often that not was not included.

From: Remco Takken:

I have to investigate this one more thoroughly, but I already know that the song "Honey, Don't You Want a Man Like Me" is a different version than the vinyl version. You can really hear how tight Zappa's band played when it played the songs straight: the differences are extremely subtle.

From Charles Ulrich:

The album is usually referred to as Zappa in New York. But the Barking Pumpkin CDs (the disks themselves, one printed pink on black and one black on pink) do indeed say Live In New York.

From Michael Pabst:

Just put the german [Waka/Jawaka] vinyl release on (after many years). Sounds direct, dry and warm. Everything is just in front of you. My Zappa Records CD release from the '80s instead has the "added reverb during mastering" problem like some other Zappa CDs (Apostrophe ('), Zappa in New York, etc.). Seems they just couldn't avoid to (over)use the then new studio toys like digital reverb.

A critique from David G.:

Personally, I've always thought that the CD versions of Zappa in New York... sounded like shit. They have they same high-frequency problems as Sheik Yerbouti and You Are What You Is.

JWB concurs:

Shrill, poorly-remixed garbage. They should either do a fresh remix, or remaster the original mixes. I knew this one and the old You Are What You Is sounded really bad when I was about 10 years old. What's Frank's excuse?

1995 CD

Like the original CD. Official Ryko statement: "New master. New timing sheet." [full statement] It derives from the same digital remix as the original CDs, and is therefore probably identical.

Japanese Paper-Sleeve Version (2001-2002)

Starting in 2001, Video Arts Music released a limited-edition series (2000 copies each) of Zappa CDs in paper sleeves - miniature LP sleeves. There was nothing special about this series other than the covers, which were very well done - inserts and "bonuses" were reproduced, the albums that originally had gatefold covers got little miniature gatefolds, and cover track lists were exactly as on the corresponding LPs, even in cases where the CD has bonus tracks or a different track order. Included in this series were some entries that never had "proper" LP issues, i.e. Läther. Additionally, some rarities--like the "green/gold" cover of Chunga's Revenge--were reproduced as special items in this run.

We need to stress that the sound quality of these discs matches the US Ryko issues, which they are clearly derived from. These are collectors items, not new remastered editions.

Late-2012-update: It appears as if the Japanese may be warming up the mini-LP ovens for a new batch based on the 2012 UMe remasters. We'll let you know if this happens.

2012 UMe CD

Taken from the 1993 1630 Digital Master; this is the same as older CDs. Those with Ryko/Zappa Records/Barking Pumpkin copies have no need to upgrade.

CD Counterfeit

A counterfeit bootleg CD, called Zappa in New York, is copied from the rare uncensored version of the original vinyl. [read all about it in the Son of the Bootleg FAQ] (At least one issue of this is on the same label as at least one issue of a bootleg CD of the vinyl versions of Sleep Dirt and Studio Tan.)


An inexplicable bootleg CD called Just Another Live Album seems to be some kind of alternative Zappa in New York album, with different edits of the same performances. [read all about it in the Son of the Bootleg FAQ]


  • I think there is too little of everything here.
  • Any details on cassette versions?
  • Any details on 8-track versions?
  • Any regional peculiarities?
  • Is the Greek vinyl legit?

Additional Informants

  • JWB
  • Biffy the Elephant Shrew
  • Jos van Galen
  • Steve Jones
  • Gerard Vaalburg (fourth UK LP variant)

home - vinyl vs CDs - weirdo discography - bootlegs - misc - hot lynx - e-mail us at zappa dot patio at gmail dot com 2006-04-22 20:02

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