[Dec 20, 09:50]Terry I'm somewhat ambivalent on the issue.
On one hand we do indeed have the fact that Christmas (Christ-Mass), despite all the practices and traditions having pagan roots, etc., is the feast celebrating the birth of Christ, and I have no problem at all with someone reminding their fellow Christian that Christmas is about Christ's birth.
On the other hand we have the attitude that Christmas is somehow the only holiday of this holiday season, and I agree that is a very close-minded, if not arrogant, attitude. There does indeed seem to be a disregard for other December religious and cultural holidays such as Hanukkah and Kwanzaa. There's probably even some people out there who still celebrate Saturnalia or Yule. If I'm greeting someone I know is Christian, I can say Merry Christmas. If I'm unsure, or know them to be something other than Christian, I can say Happy Holidays. I'm sure this is the attitude retailers are taking, trying to make everyone feel welcome by having "holiday sales" instead of "Christmas sales." A sale on December 26, though, can still be called a "day-after-Christmas sale" since December 26 is indeed the day after Christmas whether you celebrate Christmas or not.
[Dec 20, 10:04]Rspaight I may be thoroughly off-base on this, not being Jewish (though since I'm not loudly Christian and have a big nose people tend to assume I'm Jewish), but I recall reading at some point that Hanukkah was actually a relatively minor holiday on the Jewish calendar that was greatly elevated in prominence because of its proximity to Christmas.
But, as I pointed out on the forum, the strangest part of this whole brouhaha is that the "I'm a bigger Christian than you are" game goes a whole level deeper, to those who claim that Christians shouldn't celebrate Christmas at all, since it isn't mentioned in the Bible and was made up by the Catholics a few hundred years after the fact to co-opt various pagan solstice festivals.
In any event, the fact that these geniuses have decided that the best way to express your religious convictions on this topic is through the act of shopping, that kind of tells you everything you need to know about where their heads are at.
[Dec 26, 01:49]Leanne I have no problem with the whole "Happy Holidays" thing, since Channakuh and Kwannza do fall at the same time of year every year, Ramadan sometimes, and New Years (totally secular) just a week after Christmas.
I have no problem with seeing a Christmas Tree (with all its pagan roots), a Menorah, a Nativity Scene, and a Santa Claus, etc. all in the same display...they are all a part of this holiday season...in fact, I would be offended if it was only Jesus, because that would deny the other celebrations happening at the same time.
However, my problem comes in when the Christian meaning is *deliberately* left out of the conversation. There are schools that now do "holiday programs," and have references to every other holiday BUT the Christian understanding of Christmas. To deliberately leave out one religion in order "not to offend" is just as offensive as only celebrating one religion.
Christmas for me is about the birth of Christ. I can't force that on anyone...but I don't want anyone to take that away from me, either.
Christians *do* need to be reminded about what this holiday is all about for them. But it shouldn't be done in a newspaper ad or by boycotting stores that say "Happy Holidays". It should be done in church, in conversations, in relationships...
An interesting story, before I get back to sermon writing...what I really should be doing tonight...
I was shopping in the stores here in my hometown for some souveniers for my boyfriend. We were in several stores that are owned by Muslim folks...and many of them said "Merry Christmas" to us as we were leaving the store. They recognized that, whether or not we were Christian, we probably celebrated Christmas as Americans.
Every time, we responded back with "Happy Holidays," out of respect for the fact that they were not Christian, *and* "Merry Christmas," in case they did celebrate the secular version of the day.
A compromise? Perhaps. But, I hope, respectful on both of our parts...
Peace of the Season! ;-)
[Dec 27, 10:59]anonymous I thought the point of "Happy Holidays" was that it was all-inclusive, thus the plural "holidays." People have got to relax. As Leanne has touched on, there's nothing obstructing, prohibiting, or really discouraging people from talking about Christmas, the meaning of the holiday, Christ, Christianity, etc., and it's not like "happy holidays" or a broad recognition of the holiday season is even a hard and fast rule, it's just a simple guideline people can or cannot follow. You're supposed to penalize someone for that? Ugh.
[Dec 29, 12:56]Luke [e-mail] "Christmas for me is about the birth of Christ. I can't force that on anyone...but I don't want anyone to take that away from me, either."
Well, that's the thing - nobody *is* taking it away from anyone. I would agree it's dumb (and wrong) to *exclude* Christian things while going ahead with those from other religions. But the idea that Christmas is something "in danger" is absurd.
Of course, things get murky when you realize that while Christmas itself is a religious holiday, it also is a *very* large *cultural* holiday, irrespective of religion. Jesus and God are meaningless to me in a spiritual sense, but I still exchange presents, get together with people for holiday parties, etc.
[Dec 20, 09:50] Terry
I'm somewhat ambivalent on the issue.
On one hand we do indeed have the fact that Christmas (Christ-Mass), despite all the practices and traditions having pagan roots, etc., is the feast celebrating the birth of Christ, and I have no problem at all with someone reminding their fellow Christian that Christmas is about Christ's birth.
On the other hand we have the attitude that Christmas is somehow the only holiday of this holiday season, and I agree that is a very close-minded, if not arrogant, attitude. There does indeed seem to be a disregard for other December religious and cultural holidays such as Hanukkah and Kwanzaa. There's probably even some people out there who still celebrate Saturnalia or Yule. If I'm greeting someone I know is Christian, I can say Merry Christmas. If I'm unsure, or know them to be something other than Christian, I can say Happy Holidays. I'm sure this is the attitude retailers are taking, trying to make everyone feel welcome by having "holiday sales" instead of "Christmas sales." A sale on December 26, though, can still be called a "day-after-Christmas sale" since December 26 is indeed the day after Christmas whether you celebrate Christmas or not.
[Dec 20, 10:04] Rspaight
I may be thoroughly off-base on this, not being Jewish (though since I'm not loudly Christian and have a big nose people tend to assume I'm Jewish), but I recall reading at some point that Hanukkah was actually a relatively minor holiday on the Jewish calendar that was greatly elevated in prominence because of its proximity to Christmas.
But, as I pointed out on the forum, the strangest part of this whole brouhaha is that the "I'm a bigger Christian than you are" game goes a whole level deeper, to those who claim that Christians shouldn't celebrate Christmas at all, since it isn't mentioned in the Bible and was made up by the Catholics a few hundred years after the fact to co-opt various pagan solstice festivals.
In any event, the fact that these geniuses have decided that the best way to express your religious convictions on this topic is through the act of shopping, that kind of tells you everything you need to know about where their heads are at.
[Dec 26, 01:49] Leanne
I have no problem with the whole "Happy Holidays" thing, since Channakuh and Kwannza do fall at the same time of year every year, Ramadan sometimes, and New Years (totally secular) just a week after Christmas.
I have no problem with seeing a Christmas Tree (with all its pagan roots), a Menorah, a Nativity Scene, and a Santa Claus, etc. all in the same display...they are all a part of this holiday season...in fact, I would be offended if it was only Jesus, because that would deny the other celebrations happening at the same time.
However, my problem comes in when the Christian meaning is *deliberately* left out of the conversation. There are schools that now do "holiday programs," and have references to every other holiday BUT the Christian understanding of Christmas. To deliberately leave out one religion in order "not to offend" is just as offensive as only celebrating one religion.
Christmas for me is about the birth of Christ. I can't force that on anyone...but I don't want anyone to take that away from me, either.
Christians *do* need to be reminded about what this holiday is all about for them. But it shouldn't be done in a newspaper ad or by boycotting stores that say "Happy Holidays". It should be done in church, in conversations, in relationships...
An interesting story, before I get back to sermon writing...what I really should be doing tonight... I was shopping in the stores here in my hometown for some souveniers for my boyfriend. We were in several stores that are owned by Muslim folks...and many of them said "Merry Christmas" to us as we were leaving the store. They recognized that, whether or not we were Christian, we probably celebrated Christmas as Americans. Every time, we responded back with "Happy Holidays," out of respect for the fact that they were not Christian, *and* "Merry Christmas," in case they did celebrate the secular version of the day. A compromise? Perhaps. But, I hope, respectful on both of our parts...
Peace of the Season! ;-)
[Dec 27, 10:59] anonymous
I thought the point of "Happy Holidays" was that it was all-inclusive, thus the plural "holidays." People have got to relax. As Leanne has touched on, there's nothing obstructing, prohibiting, or really discouraging people from talking about Christmas, the meaning of the holiday, Christ, Christianity, etc., and it's not like "happy holidays" or a broad recognition of the holiday season is even a hard and fast rule, it's just a simple guideline people can or cannot follow. You're supposed to penalize someone for that? Ugh.
[Dec 29, 12:56] Luke [e-mail]
"Christmas for me is about the birth of Christ. I can't force that on anyone...but I don't want anyone to take that away from me, either."
Well, that's the thing - nobody *is* taking it away from anyone. I would agree it's dumb (and wrong) to *exclude* Christian things while going ahead with those from other religions. But the idea that Christmas is something "in danger" is absurd.
Of course, things get murky when you realize that while Christmas itself is a religious holiday, it also is a *very* large *cultural* holiday, irrespective of religion. Jesus and God are meaningless to me in a spiritual sense, but I still exchange presents, get together with people for holiday parties, etc.